Top 5 Movie Villains/Antagonists

[Infinite Jerkgrinders]

Not just "the most ultimate bad characters" but more along the lines of complex and interesting characters who fulfill, to some degree, the antagonist role.  The t-1000 for instance, while a very cool antagonist, isn't very complex and interesting like I found Roy Batty from blade runner to be.

1. Roy Batty (Rutger Hauer) - Blade Runner
2. William Cutting ( Daniel Day Lewis) - Gangs of New York
3. Anton Chigurh (Javier Bardem) - No Country for Old Men
4. Jean-Baptiste Emmanuel Zorg (Gary Oldman) The Fifth Element
5. Jack Torrance (Jack Nicholson) - The Shining


The runners- up:
6. Bill (David Carradine) - Kill Bill vol. 2
7. Ash (Ian Holm) - Alien
8. Francis Dolarhyde (Ralph Fiennes) - Red Dragon
9. Burke (Paul Reiser) - Aliens
10. Nurse Ratched (Louise Fletcher) - One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
11. Uncle Charlie (Joseph Cotten) - Shadow of a Doubt
12. Francis Costello (Jack Nicholson) - The Departed

[الله أكبر]

No particular order.

Angel Eyes (Lee van Cleef) - The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. The dude's mustache screams "sinister."
Idi Amin (Forest Whitaker) - The Last King of Scotland
Eamon de Valera (Alan Rickman) - Michael Collins

I could really only come up with three.

[The Ocean]

5. Fred O'Bannion as played by Ben Affleck in Dazed And Confused
4. Tommy De Vito as played by in Goodfellas
3. Amon Goeth as played by Ralph Fiennes in Schindler's List
2. Buffalo Bill as played by Ted Levine in The Silence Of The Lambs
1. Bill Cutting as played by Daniel Day-Lewis in Gangs Of New York

[FAGGOT WATCHIN TRON]

8. Francis Dolarhyde (Ralph Fiennes) - Red Dragon

2. Buffalo Bill as played by Ted Levine in The Silence Of The Lambs

How can you two be serious? I'm not saying anything about the quality of the characters themselves or the quality of the movies because I believe both to be extremely high in all counts. But let's be honest - they are essentially the SAME characters. Not to mention the REAL villian in BOTH of those stories is Hannibal Lecter and HOW can you not have him ANYWHERE on you're lists? You're both morons. Case closed.

[The Ocean]

8. Francis Dolarhyde (Ralph Fiennes) - Red Dragon

2. Buffalo Bill as played by Ted Levine in The Silence Of The Lambs

How can you two be serious? I'm not saying anything about the quality of the characters themselves or the quality of the movies because I believe both to be extremely high in all counts. But let's be honest - they are essentially the SAME characters. Not to mention the REAL villian in BOTH of those stories is Hannibal Lecter and HOW can you not have him ANYWHERE on you're lists? You're both morons. Case closed.

His only phenominal performance of Hannibal is in The Silence Of The Lambs (Hannibal and Red Dragon weren't as a good a performance from him), and in Silence, he is made into an almost anti-hero. The film makes you root for him in a way, and he is also no danger to the protagonist. I do not see him as the villain in that film. I see him as a secondary villain in Red Dragon, but it honestly is not that great a performance by Hopkins in that one.

[Infinite Jerkgrinders]

Ok so where the hell is your list carly 

Dolarhyde and Bill were completely different - what the hell are you talking about??  They were both serial killers, yes, and they both worked towards a greater goal (bil wanted to be a woman, dolarhyde was becoming the dragon) and transformation was key, but it kind of ends there. 

Bill killed to make a woman suit because he was denied a sex change operation, and he reduced his victims to objects, things, ('it puts the lotion in the basket')  he shows no remorse, he is simply the killer.

Dolarhyde kills his victims for several reasons:
1. out of contempt for their perfect life, something that he was denied as a kid.
2. To Transform into something greater (the dragon)
3. To exersize his power over them, transforming him from the outcast to the over - the better being above everyone.  instead of reducing his victims from humans to animals, his killing elevates him above.

In addition, we see a great deal more of Dolarhyde than bill - instead of just a victim's perspective with the occasional shot oh him doing odd things (pecker between the legs)  we get a better idea about his past, and a stronger insight into the killer's mind, his struggle with the evil that his grandmother beat into him, his past, and present struggles. We want him to stop killing after he finds the blind girl, we want him to stop, but he cant.  He's not just a mindless antagonist created for the purpose of keeping the plot going, he's got his own depth and character.

Lector was more of a villain in Silence than in Red Dragon, and in Red Dragon Dolarhyde took the cake as far as creepy awesome villains went.  I didn't find him as interesting as the ones on my top 5, but definitely a good character for the runner-up list.

also some additions to my runner-ups list:

13. Riddik (Vin Diesel) - Pitch Black
14. Don Logan (Ben Kingsley) - Sexy Beast
15. John Doe (Kevin Spacey) Se7en
16. Hannibal Lector ( Anthony Hopkins) The Silence of the Lambs   --- ARE YOU HAPPY NOW CARLY??? GOSH.

[The Ocean]

Lector was more of a villain in Silence than in Red Dragon, and in Red Dragon Dolarhyde took the cake as far as creepy awesome villains went.

I disagree with this. Lecter was more of a villain in Red Dragon because he tried to directly get Will killed.

[Infinite Jerkgrinders]

I disagree with this. Lecter was more of a villain in Red Dragon because he tried to directly get Will killed.

as opposed to murdering 3 cops and flaying one's face off to escape ... Meh I dunno

[FAGGOT WATCHIN TRON]

Ok so where the hell is your list carly 

I'll make a list when I goddamned get around to it. I have other things to do, however, like working and interacting with living breathing people in a real life environment before I do.

16. Hannibal Lector ( Anthony Hopkins) The Silence of the Lambs   --- ARE YOU HAPPY NOW CARLY??? GOSH.

I'll never be happy so long as your existence is continued, Bryce. 

On a more serious note, HOWEVER, I respectfully disagree with everything you said. I still think that Lecter is the true villian in both movies (and most CERTAINLY in both books, although I will try very hard to disreguard my opinions on those since this is supposed to be about movies.) I'm not saying Dolarhyde and Bill aren't good villians in their own rights, but they seriously lack depth. And they ARE very similiar. Thomas Harris was not an incredibly creative author - he got VERY lucky with the invention of the Lecter character, whom added a level to the stories that were he not included, would reduce them to simple crime novels akin to something Dean Koontz/Tom Clancy/Whoever that guy who wrote Pelican Brief and all that bullshit is.

PERCEIVED depth is very different from REAL depth. You perceive Gumb and Dolarhyde has being deep villians because the reasons they kill are complex (although not really). You perceive them as being different because their reasons for killing are superficially different. But they aren't. They both kill because they want to change. That is the basic idea behind both characters. They seek to gain transformation through their murders. Gumb's is more superficial, an actual physical transformation, whereas Dolarhyde's is a spiritual transformation, but its still the same basic M.O. I will agree with you that you certainly feel more sympathy towards Dolarhyde by the end of Red Dragon than you do with Gumb at the end of Silence. Dolarhyde is a sad character, but so is Gumb is in his own way. He's just more villiafied than Dolarhyde.

And you're both still dead wrong about Lecter. I do not think you are supposed to view him as any kind of antihero in Silence. And if you are for a second, those thoughts are immediately dashed by the fact that he brutally murders three cops to escape his imprisonment at the end of the movie. You are NOT supposed to see him as a good guy, because he is not. He is pure evil, and I think they do an excellent job of reminding you of that in Silence. That's what makes him so wonderful and diabolical, though, is that you NEED the reminder. It's easy to make a villian like Gumb, where he is so obviously dispicable and unlikeable. But to make a character like Lecter...where you WANT to like him, you WANT to root for him, even though he is every bit as horrible as Gumb...that is so much better. And THAT is real depth.

And I think he did JUST FINE in Red Dragon. Hannibal, however, was a shit show to be sure. That book though is why I have such a huge secret crush on Lecter....

[Infinite Jerkgrinders]

I'll make a list when I goddamned get around to it. I have other things to do, however, like working and interacting with living breathing people in a real life environment before I do.

so somehow writing down your favorite 5 villian/antagonists takes more time than writing 3 long paragraphs about how I'm wrong about one name ... okay carly  Also I never put Gumb anywhere on my list, stop blurring me and ocean together.

also lol you put a top five in TV shows. CLEARLY you have other things to do ahahah

[FAGGOT WATCHIN TRON]

Also I never put Gumb anywhere on my list, stop blurring me and ocean together.

I was responding to you and Chris since you both listed the secondary villians in both movies in your top fives and neither of you listed Lecter. It was necessary for me to compare Dolarhyde and Gumb in my response because my opinion hinged upon their comparison.

Also, just curious, have you ever read the books or have you just seen the movies? Like I said, just curious.

[Larry Flyntz]

1. Mr. Blonde, Reservoir Dogs
2. Nurse Ratched (I always copy Mr. Sparkle), One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
3. The Nihilists, The Big Lebowski
4. Hercules (aka The Beast), The Sandlot
5. Jigsaw, The Saw Movies

[FAGGOT WATCHIN TRON]

5. Jigsaw, The Saw Movies

lolololz, for real?! That's awesome Flyntz.

Okay fine Bryce here is your damned list:

5. Captain Barbosa - Pirates of the Caribbean I II & III
4. Gaston - Beauty and the Beast
3. Ursula - The Little Mermaid
2. Antonio Salieri* - Amadeus
1. Hannibal Lecter - The Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs (NOT Hannibal or Hannibal Rising...)

*F. Murray Abraham was born in Pittsburgh. Boo-yah!

[Infinite Jerkgrinders]

(NOT Hannibal or Hannibal Rising...)

Haven't seen rising, but I didn't like Hannibal very much. 

Ah yes! Gaston is great!!

And thanks :)

[FAGGOT WATCHIN TRON]

(NOT Hannibal or Hannibal Rising...)

Haven't seen rising, but I didn't like Hannibal very much. 

Hannibal was downright terrible. Of course I loved the book so much that I think I might have been blinded...especially the ending. Although I will say Gary Oldman was a great Mason Verger.

[The Ocean]

Ok so where the hell is your list carly 

I'll make a list when I goddamned get around to it. I have other things to do, however, like working and interacting with living breathing people in a real life environment before I do.

16. Hannibal Lector ( Anthony Hopkins) The Silence of the Lambs   --- ARE YOU HAPPY NOW CARLY??? GOSH.

I'll never be happy so long as your existence is continued, Bryce. 

On a more serious note, HOWEVER, I respectfully disagree with everything you said. I still think that Lecter is the true villian in both movies (and most CERTAINLY in both books, although I will try very hard to disreguard my opinions on those since this is supposed to be about movies.) I'm not saying Dolarhyde and Bill aren't good villians in their own rights, but they seriously lack depth. And they ARE very similiar. Thomas Harris was not an incredibly creative author - he got VERY lucky with the invention of the Lecter character, whom added a level to the stories that were he not included, would reduce them to simple crime novels akin to something Dean Koontz/Tom Clancy/Whoever that guy who wrote Pelican Brief and all that bullshit is.

PERCEIVED depth is very different from REAL depth. You perceive Gumb and Dolarhyde has being deep villians because the reasons they kill are complex (although not really). You perceive them as being different because their reasons for killing are superficially different. But they aren't. They both kill because they want to change. That is the basic idea behind both characters. They seek to gain transformation through their murders. Gumb's is more superficial, an actual physical transformation, whereas Dolarhyde's is a spiritual transformation, but its still the same basic M.O. I will agree with you that you certainly feel more sympathy towards Dolarhyde by the end of Red Dragon than you do with Gumb at the end of Silence. Dolarhyde is a sad character, but so is Gumb is in his own way. He's just more villiafied than Dolarhyde.

And you're both still dead wrong about Lecter. I do not think you are supposed to view him as any kind of antihero in Silence. And if you are for a second, those thoughts are immediately dashed by the fact that he brutally murders three cops to escape his imprisonment at the end of the movie. You are NOT supposed to see him as a good guy, because he is not. He is pure evil, and I think they do an excellent job of reminding you of that in Silence. That's what makes him so wonderful and diabolical, though, is that you NEED the reminder. It's easy to make a villian like Gumb, where he is so obviously dispicable and unlikeable. But to make a character like Lecter...where you WANT to like him, you WANT to root for him, even though he is every bit as horrible as Gumb...that is so much better. And THAT is real depth.

And I think he did JUST FINE in Red Dragon. Hannibal, however, was a shit show to be sure. That book though is why I have such a huge secret crush on Lecter....

Fuck you, now I have to alter my list. Stupid debates... making me realize I was wrong... bastards...

[Infinite Jerkgrinders]

Hannibal was downright terrible. Of course I loved the book so much that I think I might have been blinded...especially the ending. Although I will say Gary Oldman was a great Mason Verger.

Yeah I did't realize it was Oldman until I read it on his IMDB page.  Not bad. Gary Oldman is usually the best part of most films.

[WWW.SETH.COM]

Actually, not to keep the arguments going or anything, but I would have to say that Riddik is not a villain/antagonist in Pitch Black.

Interestingly, Barbosa is definitely the bad guy in Pirates of the Caribbean I, but by III he is definitely a protagonist in my eyes. Just one of those characters that is very hard to pin down. I mean, who is the antagonist in American Gangster? Kind of like, say, Carl Hanratty in Catch Me If You Can. He definitely opposes the protagonist, but is one of the main characters. Though I suppose he still fits the technical definition of "antagonist," so I am including him.

1. Frank Costello - The Departed
2. Bill Cutting - Gangs of New York
3. Gregor - Ronin
4. Laura - Brick
5. Carl Hanratty - Catch Me If You Can

Runner Ups:

6. Simon Skinner - Hot Fuzz
7. Angel Eyes - The Good The Bad And The Ugly
8. Mr. Blonde - Reservoir Dogs
9. Hatchet Harry - Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels
10. Doyle Lonnegan - The Sting

[FAGGOT WATCHIN TRON]

Interestingly, Barbosa is definitely the bad guy in Pirates of the Caribbean I, but by III he is definitely a protagonist in my eyes.

I guess that depends on who you are viewing as the protagonist. I mean you could even argue that Jack Sparrow is an antagonist to Will Turner, whereas I would view Barbosa as the antagonist to Sparrow's protagonist. All a matter of opinion.

[oatmeal fetish....]

Well here's my list I suppose (like Flyntz, I don't really go in any order)

5. Minister Frolo, The Hunchback of Notre Dame
4. The T-1000. Terminator 2
3. Captain Barbosa. Pirates of the Caribbean
2. Captain Hook, Hook
1. Darth Vader, Star Wars